Photographer Interview:
Justice Mukheli
BIO
Justice Mukheli is a South African Artist, filmmaker, who creates commercials and fine art films. Mukheli is known for creating "intellectually and emotionally dense Art and films" that center on the authentic African experience and with the continued intention to dismantle the negative narrative of Africa and Africans in the World.
His clients included, Fader Magazine, Diesel, Levis, Wallpaper*, Art Comes First, Google, Jeep, British American Tobacco, Nikon, South African Tourism, Colgate, Adidas, Lotto, Old Mutual, Simon&Marry and NoFormat to name a few.
Where are you from? Where do you currently reside?
I'm from South Africa, Soweto to be specific. Born and bred there. My tribe is Venda. We are the smallest recognized South African tribe. I grew up in Soweto, then we moved to a place called Pimville, which is still in Soweto.
My journey began there and I realized I grew into myself, and my purpose and passions were found there, which some are still very much a part of my journey now. And now, I live in more in suburbia, not township. I live in Riviera at the moment. I'm still in Joburg and living and working here, even though I work sometimes beyond here, internationally as well at times.
Tell us a weird or fun fact about yourself.
A weird fact about me is, maybe there are a few. I think I'm an introvert, I'm not so social, I'm super sensitive. Another weird thing that's not so expected of me is I make jokes a lot, more than how I present. I like to laugh but within its close circle, I'm very emotional. If that counts for weird. I am a weird mix of very masculine and very soft in a feminine way.
How long have you been shooting for?
My journey with photography started in 2010, 2011, but my journey with visual art, maybe started when I was seven. That's when I became conscious and intentionally interested in engaging visual art.
How has your photography evolved over the years?
That's a beautiful question. For me, photography evolved by realizing its power beyond just creating photographs. When I realized the power of the storytelling within photography, and how much influence and power, and how much one photograph can carry with it a very important message that's so loaded and detailed beyond just one frame. That was the evolution when I realized the power of the medium.
That's beautiful. In a sense, you're also making history. This is something that you look back on for years and years and years to come.
It's amazing because as much as we are capturing moments and feelings and story and all of that, sometimes I look back at a photograph, it definitely would take me back to what I was unpacking in that time, or it can distill what I'm feeling in a moment. For example, when I come across incredible photographs, maybe contemporary and old, we felt the context of what story was being told or captured or what was happening there. It very quickly, either made me feel a certain way relative to my own experiences or what I'm going through, or it just distills the moment that was captured so well, and it takes me into that. That's the beauty of photography and the art of it, because it's so endless where it takes you.
Did you buy your first camera or was it a gift?
It was a gift from a then girlfriend. It was a Canon 7D Mark, I forget. I don't remember, but it was a 24 mil zoom with a lens that was an F4, 105. Either it was a 24-105 or 24 to 21 something.
Was this just a random gift or she knew this is something you always wanted to pursue?
It was a great gift, it changed my life. I was, at the time, exploring photography and she had studied photography when she was studying design, and I used to borrow my cousin's camera because I was so interested in photography from a point of blogging. I wanted to create a blog about men's wear and all that stuff. I would borrow my cousin's camera and photograph myself, my brother. I remember I lost my cousin's camera. It got stolen when I went to Cape Town, and when I came back I tried to replace it, which was hard, but I did. Then on my birthday, she got me that camera. She got me a 7D, which was amazing.
Any specific moment stand out where you knew you wanted to pursue photography?
I remember when we were creating photographs, I used to shoot a lot with my brothers weekly. After work, we'd go dress up and go create photographs and we would make sure that every week, we've got three photos to post on our timeline in the Instagram and all of that.
So every week, we'd go shoot maybe on a Sunday, and on a Monday morning we'd post the photograph. People would react in the most amazing way, and their reactions mostly were, “I wonder what this is, I wonder what's coming”. They were so intrigued by the difference in what we were creating because at the time, not many people were creating photographs of Black men in an authentic backdrop of South Africa or a township, but still stylish cool and have all those things. It wasn't common.
People were so intrigued and interested to know what is this, what's coming, what's coming, what is it? And I just said, wow, there's definitely a need for this. And very quickly, I realized the power of the medium, because then when I'd Google about Soweto, mostly what I found was about the uprising and the painful history that had happened and the township.
I thought I love Soweto with all my heart and that's where I'm from, and all of what it represents to me, isn't only the uprising, and I'd love to capture and show all of the other beauty that I've experienced there and the complexities. Then that's when it happened that, okay, there's something here.
Does your environment influence you as a creative?
Yeah, completely. It has a huge impact and influence, directly and indirectly. The state of the world influence how I think, the state of the country now, where I am, influence me so much and it influence me in different ways. For me, the most influential theme was around the state of the black person in the world, and the state of the black person in my country, and how we reclaim our space, and how we present ourselves being mindful and being conscious of the historical context of what this country and these bodies have been through, and how that influences my outlook to the world, and how it influences how I present myself. It has a huge influence because it's either, everything is for me as a black body and a black human being, everything is a fight to have a voice, to be heard, to be seen.
To be seen as a complex human being beyond what's expected of me or beyond the stereotypes, because there are stereotypes around being black and what's expected of you. Being a photographer that's fighting for a space in the global platform, being where I am with our historical context. The challenges and the battles happened here, before it happens in the actual space and when I do occupy the space. Most of the time, the fight is psychological, because those are things that we've inherited systematically. Those that are not living in our bodies and living in our experiences, wonder why we are saying, we want to occupy a space, we want to do this and that. They ask themselves, but no one is stopping you, because they don't understand the historical context of these bodies and how we were excluded and sidelined systematically.
Those are my influences. Then themes around gender, because I think the world is going through a gender revolution, where more people can speak up about their preference and how they feel without worrying about how it will be received, as much as they would worry about it maybe 10 years ago. That influences, who am I? Sure, I'm a heterosexual man, and what is my understanding of this topic? How far have I engaged it? Have I been present and conscious of my presence and how I occupy a space around bodies that are not what I am? So, those things influence me, humanity influences me.
“For me, what people should take away from my work is if they can feel something. Be it, if a photograph can make them reflect on their own life, or if it can take them back to an emotion or to a moment, or make them wonder what the person I captured was feeling and thinking about and unpack that.”
Are you a self taught photographer? Any advice for up and coming artists?
I think my advice for up and coming photographers would be, spend as much time understanding your tools, understanding your camera and the rules before you break them. Understand those rules are there for a reason, like how aperture works, how shutter speed, then it's how it influences the other, and how ISO works, and what film stock gives you which result, and what lens gives you this and understanding of tools only makes you better at expressing yourself.
For example, as I told you, I'm very emotional, and the other thing about me, the emotion I connect with artistically is maybe sadness most of the time. If I want to create a photograph, the first thing I ask myself is what emotion am I trying to evoke or capture? If you are creating a photograph with emotion, your lens will have an impact on how someone feels when they engage with the photograph.
If you're doing a portrait and you're going to use a fisheye, I'm not sure if a fisheye is the right lens to give you the right emotion. But if you're doing comedy and that's the emotion you're looking for, a fisheye could work in that space, lighting, all those things. So understanding your tools, that's what I would give someone who's trying to be a photo to get into this. Understand the tools like the back of your hand, if that's a quote that makes sense, but understand those tools and spend all your time obsessing about getting that right. Then when you get that right, it's going to be easy to know how to express yourself.
Artistically, emotion is everything. I'm not even interested in an idea. I'm interested in how it makes me feel. It's a tall statement, I'm a film director and I'm a painter and I'm multidisciplinary, even when I watch a film, emotion is what I connect with more than the narrative, for me, or the narrative will lead me to an emotion. The big idea is too far for me to be thinking, oh, wow. When I think of art stuff, it's how did it make me feel?
How did you get into acrylic painting? Walk us through that journey.
Acrylic painting. COVID was a hard challenge for the world. I'll go to a place where I had time and with my photography, I got a little bit challenged because I felt like, I'm an artist, I'm a photographic artist and there were limitations during the lockdown. I explored self-portraiture, which I quite enjoyed, but I felt when I looked at my twin brother I thought, oh, well, he's painting more, he's able to express himself, he's able to create these worlds that with my photographs, with my camera, I can't go out and create. So, I thought I can create worlds through painting and the feeling of what I usually created as a photographer, through painting. So, I got some papers and got some paint.
You just started painting?
When I was younger in my journey of being a creative, I drew. I dabbled a bit with paint, but not that much. I was more interested in graffiti, so I did that a lot. Then I was illustrating digitally, then I walked away from that because I got bored. But finding painting was incredible. If I really love something and I'm interested, I won't allow myself to not be able to do it. I'll obsess about it and channel all my energy to doing it. I started now in December or November.
Would you ever do an exhibition for your paintings?
I definitely would. My paintings are now, are represented, they are on Artsy and they are also with a gallery called RedD Gallery in Greece. I'm going to build a body of work, maybe 40 works, then I can choose from that and create an exhibition.
Has there ever been a time when you received a script and the visions and ideas didn’t come to you?
For me, when I get briefed, that main vision comes to me immediately. I know in the room that this is where we going. But it's tough for me most of the time when, because it happens all the time, but I push back and I say no to myself. I need more time to think about it because better ideas will come, but they don't. For me, as soon as when I'm listening, my brain will go exactly where it needs to go and I will never with time, I will never... I can make it better in the sense of just adding the detail, but the premise happens to me in the room, always. When we leave the room, I'll say to my producer, "That was so amazing. This is how we are going to do it." And they'd say, "You're right. That's so cool." Whatever. Then I'll say, "But I want to think some more to see if I can bring more ideas," but it never happens. That spark that happens in the room is always the gem for me.
Your images tend to have a cinematic feel to them. Would you say that’s your signature as a photographer?
My signature is emotion, definitely. But as I told you, understanding the tool helps me know what things to add and remove so that an image has the emotion. So the colors, the lenses will definitely give it that cinematic look and give it a mood, and the time of day I choose. Sometimes maybe, I might shoot it when it's still slightly too bright, and when I'm editing, I'll bring it down a bit if I've got the latitude. So, understanding my tools helped me make the images cinematic so that the feeling is heightened.
One of the things that really stuck out to me is skin in your images. The skin tone is just so vibrant and beautiful. I love it.
That's very important to me being a contributor to this art. That it is important that for our people to see them right and show them right, because it is our duty. Now, for the longest time, we weren't being shown that in the best light. And now, when we can use these tools and we've got access to the tools, it's our duty to do that for ourselves and our people, so that the other younger photographers will grow up with an understanding of how we treat a skin tone and how it's lit. When they want to break the rules, they'll break the rules, at least knowing what it looks like, or it should look like.
Out of all your sets, which one was the most memorable?
I did a commercial for Ingram's, which is a skincare brand. That was very memorable because for me, as a director, that was the first time creating something that feels and looks like what I connect with artistically, 100%. The colors, the lens and the skin tone, the performance, and the energy that was created on set had a lot of that, and it informed my approach moving forward. Because I had always asked myself, okay, I can achieve all these things as a photographer, but as a filmmaker, how do I do that, because we have a lot of contributors and we were able to do that. Then that led to the last one I created, which was for Ballantine's, and it's so memorable because the energy from get-go and the intention, and the team we chose and all the moving parts had the very same energy that I connect with artistic, and that was beautiful.
What is the creative process while directing a commercial or film?
The creative process is so beautiful. I love it so much. Firstly, with the commercial, you get a brief and the brief will be the script, and the first and most important thing is how you see it. How you take what they gave you and imagine it further, and that process is amazing, and that process is called writing a treatment. Justice:
So, you write a treatment based on the script and you build this document that expands on how you see this world. You take a character and expand on it and say, this guy's name is this, he is this tall, he has this skin tone. When he smiles, he makes you feel this, this is how he says this, he dresses like this. You build this character and his world in a way that when you're presenting it, it's clear that we see this guy, this is exactly who we see. And if he's got other characters he's working with, you build those characters and you build the world. This is where they are, this is the location. When he comes in, he leans on this and the backdrop is this, and you show them all those examples and you write the script, coloring in all those details.
This is the feeling, this is the type of music he listens to so when he gets in, the music does this with this tempo. Then from there, you present to them and if they buy the job, then we go and look for these characters, and we go and we look for these locations. Say, okay, this is suitable for what I said here. This is the car he drives and all of that. We dress him up and we build a document called a pre-production document, which has all the actual moving parts that will create the commercial or the film. Then from there, we present that and all goes well, then we go shoot. And film shooting depends how big the script is, however many days, then we go edit. Most of the time how I envisioned the story flowing, changes when the editor comes in, and they'll find maybe clever ways of telling that story that I didn't consider.
This is the feeling, this is the type of music he listens to so when he gets in, the music does this with this tempo. Then from there, you present to them and if they buy the job, then we go and look for these characters, and we go and we look for these locations. Say, okay, this is suitable for what I said here. This is the car he drives and all of that. We dress him up and we build a document called a pre-production document, which has all the actual moving parts that will create the commercial or the film. Then from there, we present that and all goes well, then we go shoot. And film shooting depends how big the script is, however many days, then we go edit. Most of the time how I envisioned the story flowing, changes when the editor comes in, and they'll find maybe clever ways of telling that story that I didn't consider.
It becomes a group thing. I like that. I like that you’re open to listening to other people perception and allow them to put in their input or ideas.
Completely. Being a director is that. I think you need to be able to be open to receiving inputs that will make the vision you have, come alive in a much better way than you would have if you are only limited to what you want. So for me, that group work is so amazing because sometimes you'd be working with a stylist that would... The last commercial I did for Ballantine's, the stylist was so incredible. She threw at me ideas for wardrobe that really elevated the piece. I couldn't have imagined that. The art director who was working with the locations, also through ideas at us that were like, oh my goodness. I didn't think it this way, and the cinematographer.
Everyone, even the makeup person will come up with something that you like, oh, wow, okay. Because when I'm building the treatment, my resources, my experience will be limited to that, and because the time is so limited, I don't have enough time to consult everyone. But when it comes to when we are doing the PPM and we are building the real things, you have to be receptive to those ideas because they will make it better.
On Set…
What camera would you want to be your last?
Currently, it would honestly be the ALEXA Mini because it has so much latitude and you can do so much with it. It can give you a feel that is almost 100% analog feeling. It's so versatile and so good and the quality is brilliant, and the color science is so good. I think the ALEXA Mini would be the one.
Do you prefer digital or analog? Why?
Before I give you an answer, I think they both have merit. The beauty about digital is that the latitude of how far you can go, shooting low lights, how far you can go with the color science, how far you can manipulate the visual. Film and analog, it's just amazing. It has a beautiful aesthetic from camera. You don't have to do anything, and the limitations are amazing because it forces you to work differently. To be sharper, to be more present, to be more clear in your approach. Whereas digital, you shoot knowing that if I mess it up, I can do it again. The only thing I'm chasing is time. Whereas with film, film stock is expensive, and every frame counts. So, I think I would go digital.
Candid or posed? Candid. I find that emotions are clearer and more honest candid.
Flash or no flash? No flash.
What mood or vibe do you like to curate on set? How do you do that?
So for me, the mood I love is calm, kind, gentle, honest. You get that energy. Because I'm a leader on set, that's what I come with. That's who I am. The team I choose, I make sure that we connect that way, and it will inform everyone else that is new to the team or that is contributing to the process. They will see from the top down how we are engaging, how gentle we are, how mindful we are in how we speak and how honest, when you don't know to say you know what? I'm not sure if I know that, can get a second opinion?
I think that's so important because it creates a healthy space for creativity to live, because kindness and being mindful creates a safe space. Whereas, if you've got a team of people and you're trying to get them to contribute by being harsh and mean and violent and loud, they withdraw. They'll give you the bare minimum that's needed. But if you create a space of trust and love and kindness and mindfulness and say, I can see this is what you are trying to achieve. I don't think it's working this way. How about we try... If you are mindful in your approach, people will trust you enough to give you the best of their ability, and it's just nice when there's peace.
When it comes to photography what moves you to shoot?
What moves me to shoot? Portraits, eyes, being able to see the people's eyes. That's what moves me. Seeing that spark in someone's eye, that's what moves me. Picking up the detail and nuance of how they feel moves me. That's what I love to capture. That's why, most of the time, I don't have a lot of wide shots. I live here because I feel like that's where I can feel all the emotions, all the textures of feeling come from that, for me.
Is there any element of shooting that you'd like to tackle or explore?
I've been thinking a lot about creating emotion without portraits, without faces because that's how I create emotion. So, I've been thinking a lot about landscape. I've been thinking a lot about trees. I'm just trying to, I have not seen, but I feel like I can see how I'd draw emotion from a landscape. That's what I'm interested in doing now.
What would you like people to take away from your work?
For me, what people should take away from my work is if they can feel something. Be it, if a photograph can make them reflect on their own life, or if it can take them back to an emotion or to a moment, or make them wonder what the person I captured was feeling and thinking about and unpack that. If they can feel, that's all for me.
Interview by 35s & 45s
07.12.21